Lok's Revised Demise Strategy Guide
(From Sortiri: I have attempted to correct typos and some grammatical errors during my conversion of this from a word document to html, however I may have missed some.)
This is a strategy guide to the game of DEMISE written by me, Lok (Lok is a handle I have had since mudding days in the early 90's, email me at mferry@cais.com). I tend to focus upon solo play be in multi-player or single-player. I prefer solo play because of the logistics of handling one character is far easier than of a party of characters. If you are looking for strategy tips for party play, be it online or offline, then you should go elsewhere (Gold Dragon would be a good resource).
I have been gaming since 1979 when I got my first blue Dungeons and Dragons box set. Since then I have played many games including Champions, MERP, Fantasy Hero: Palladium, Diplomacy, Tgingmalcer, Civilization (both board and computer game). Empire, Bard's Tale 2, Ultima 1-5, A whole slew of SSI rpg's, the Pool of Radiance Trilogy, the Dragonlance trilogy, a huge array of muds (mainly Farside, Ban-en Realms, Tesseract, Avatar, and Nitemare), Diablo, HOMM2-3, ADOM, MOM, MTG, Baldur's Gate, Might and Magic 2-6, and Mordor2/Infmite Worlds/Demise. I have written about 12 areas for muds, which I understand, are still in play, written many strategy articles for both HOMM2 (see www.astralwizard.com) and Diablo. The usual pattern is I get into a new game, drop everything else, and team all the lime details about it.
I started playing Mordor2 around the 0.991 release, and have stuck with it through Infinite Worlds and to Demise. I was selected for the full beta testing, and much of the knowledge I have here comes from full play in the 31 level dungeon.
The help lesson is a great resource in helping determine which race, alignment, and guild you should pick. You must consider guilds, races, and alignment together to get the full lecture of what is best for you. I will try to focus on the most efficient combinations for any given race. There are less effective combinations possible, and discussion of those would be endless.
There seems to be only one spell group which is critical to game enjoyment that is not on items is the game, and that is the detect rocks, detect distant rocks, and map area spells of the movement group. You can find everything else in item form, from flight, to teleportation, to healing, to blasting- you name it. For this reason at least for a starting character, I recommend picking a race which can gain a guild with access to this group. The only two races which do not have access to movement are trolls and ogres.
Another important group for your later survival is full resistance group access. Only sorcerers and warlocks get full resistance access, and the additional spells are mind, acid and electrical resistance. You only need to take warlock or sorcerer to 201 to maximize resistance to these groups. Also at very high levels you may use an amulet of elements which grants 90% acid, electrical resist. On level 17+ you will be facing impending doom (high end mind spell), and you cannot find mind resistance at any worthwhile level on any item in the game. Saris is the only race with tolerable levels of natural resistance in these areas. Races with access to warlock or sorcerer are Humans, Yeti, Gnome(non neutral), Dwarf, and Elf.
I will discuss the races from lowest to highest racial penalty. Racial penalty in the race Statistics table is represented by a nominal number from 3 to 8. A penalty of 3 represents the human standard experience. A penalty of 8 requires approximately 22% more experience per level. This factor may be important in the early game, but as your guild penalties rocket to the 1.5 maximum level (corresponding to 150% additional experience), this will become increasingly immaterial. You should read these in order because some aspects are discussed in humans, which apply to all other races.
The main strength of humans is guild diversity. The only thing which limits their guild combinations is alignment restrictions. To complement this, they have the lowest possible racial penalty, which encourages you as a human to 'mushpot' (be in so many guilds that you can not xfiscem any guild derived identity). For this guild diversity, humans pay the price of having the shortest life span, worst breathing, and no resistances. You can compensate for these weaknesses by finding blood of ages (removes 10 years of age), casting amphibious breathing (explorer, cleric), and gaining a guild with access to the resistance spell group (sorc., warl. are the main ones, cleric and expl. have partial access). Their vision of 3 is much improved from the Mordor2/IW days, and is a livable light level for adventuring. Humans can excel in all alignments. Characteristics are high enough for humans to cast all spells in the game.
Here is why I pick ninja/explorer/mage/sorcerer/warlock(38)/warrior(26)/artisan(200). First off, ninja gives you thieving skill and swings and backstab. If you want to be good aligned and open chests, the best you can do is ninja. Ninja also has the best extra swings in the game, giving you 5 extra swings by level 629. Nothing comes close to that (next best is warrior with 3 extra at 579). Ninja gets extra swings so fast that they really influence early game play. Explorer is in the mix to give you full movement group access and perception. Explorer gets the highest perception in the game. The next highest guild ninja maxes out with a 71 perception at level 999, a level of perception you get when you reach level 31 explorer. Explorer is the only guild which has a remote prayer of not getting lost on spinners deep, and explorer helps you find yourself raster than any other guild. Perhaps the best reason for explorer is you get full movement group access (only explorer and warlock get this) without the high leveling cost of a spellcaster. This is very handy in a primary character. Mage gives you healing, full access to the charm and bind groups, the best of all (fluids in the location group. Sorcerer gives you all the resistance spells in the game at the cheapest casting cost, and it has spell attack diversity allowing you to attack verses all forms of resistance except mind. Artisan goes to level 200 because there is nothing better for a/d than artisan at those levels (but it stops giving a/d beyond lvl 200 which is why you dump it). Artisan also gives you great object usage.
Your main problems with this choice is that ninja does not have fantastic disarm or cheap magic entry. You will have to push ninja above level 300 to reach minimum casting cost on magic entry of 9 mana. You can in general cope with the damage you take from setting traps with either healing from mage or morkals from sorcerer. You will probably want to default your option to fight and save your Mana for resistances, healing, charming, and mass kill. Resistances in the early game can be difficult, but if you maximize your dexterity and put on every single dexterity adder you can find, you will get first strike enough to deal with things like nastrums by killing them before they can attack.
Yetis have the next lowest race penalty. Yetis get some of the best resistances in the game. You have a basic 35% verses fire, cold, 95% verses paralysis (very handy) a great starting resistance of 65% to drain which will take many many levels to surpass, and base resistance in electricity(35%), mind(50%), acid(50%), and magic(40%), the resistances which you must find on treatises. Probably the most destructive thing in the game is to be paralyzed and slowly drained of hp and statistics over and over. Yeti do not face this much at all. From a play standpoint, all you really need to do is cast stone resistance and you are good to go. Yetis also have tolerable sight (3), and nothing beats their breathing(8) which is a huge boon in water zones. Some do not like their low con (20 max) and charisma(19max). The con is ok from my point of view since a few hundred levels at 2hp/level is going to wash out all hp differences anyway, and I can live without terminate existence (a high constitution spell). The charisma can only be limiting in that you will need a 3 point adder to cast soul domination. The tradeoff is they get a 25 max dex, second only to saris which means they get first strike a lot, a huge help, and any thieving ability is improved. Yeti can only be good or evil, and has a relatively short lifespan.
The best alignment to play with a yeti is evil. The main reason is you pick evil is for thieving ability from barbarian. There are two interesting routes to choose:
Dwarves make a very good solo character. They have a decent lifespan, nice vision. They have crummy breathing, so you better prepare for drowning. They are size small, and I find that they Iksve an easier time fleeing from battle, but do not block others from fleeing well. Their small size means they cannot carry large companions if they die, but they cannot be mages so odds are they are playing with companions charmed off of items that are disposable. Dwarven resistances are good, but not the best. They get 45% to fire, and 80% to cold, but cold is not that common of an attack form except from Frost giants. They get 50% resist to disease and poison, which makes the early game easy, but is not so important for late game since high con can make most poisons and diseases wear off. They are one of the few races with a base stone resistance (40%), but I would not count on that to get you past stoners. The 50% paralysis resistance means that if you get paralyzed, yon will probably recover before you die. The big resist for dwarves is 90% drain. Since stat items are so common now, it is not as critical as it was in Infinite Worlds where you had few tomes/pots Had tons of munsae crawling all over 6. Drain resistance above 90 lets them melee toe to toe with munsae and other drainers with only the occasional loss, although very high level undead seem to drain even dwarves. Any other race with lower drain resistance needs to either have high a/d or some way to blast undead out of existence. Dwarf stats are nice, with a 19 con and warrior/artisan/warlock they get the most hp of all races. The 18 dex means you will not get first strike as much, so you should try and find as many dex adders as you can.
Dwarves are the only race other than humans that can be in both warrior and thief at the same time. You would be foolish not to level these guilds as a dwarf. My pick for dwarves is one of the following:
Ogres has the narrowest guild focus of all the races, but perhaps some of the best intrinsic resistances. You get 75% fire/cold/paralysis/drain, 50% disease/stone and a token 15% acid resistance. You will need these because you have a very low dex, 21 max - the lowest of all races. You will lose first strike a whole lot as an ogre. The other penalty is 21 max int and wis, which limits some super high level object use, and really screws up your item identification, fleeing ability, and a/d, all pretty serious things for someone dependent upon fighting. You do get fantastic vision and breathing, but you need it because you get no movement group access or visual spells. The single most impressive thing about an ogre is its 25 max con. You can rack up a bunch of hp early with an ogre, but you will need them because you are the punching bag. I do not recommend ogre as a first character unless all you want to do with it is tome hunt for a legacy.
Although ogres can be of any alignment, the only one which really makes sense is neutral. A neutral ogre can be an art/barb/warrior. You want to be neutral so you can group with anyone else. You will want to level all three guilds, all the way (or until you can use all NCR objects in the game). You will be dependent upon items to fill in all your gaps like blasting and healing, and artisan will give you that. Barb is a tolerable thieving guild. The great thing about ogres is you can wear great armor and items in all your guilds and you are so focused that you can reach high levels solo quickly (if you survive!). Dropping artisan to 200 or so is also something to consider, as you will level rapidly in the other guilds and gain object usage you need from them.
Like ogres, trolls lack the movement group and are good for second characters. They are extremely tempting for one reason- they are the only non-human race which can be ninja. They have fantastic breathing and vision. Resistances are ok- 45% to disease, poison, and paralysis, 65% to drain, and 25% to acid. The disease and poison resistance is a convenience, paralysis is essential since you will be fighting instead of blasting paralyzers. The drain is very nice, taking a long time to top (but you still do not want to go 5 rounds with drainers).
My pick is evil, ninja/villain/barb(195 or nothing)/art(200). You really should play evil to get villain and its spell use. You get morkal death, a mass kill morkal group up to the neurosis level, and you get limited element group access giving you leprosy and poison. You also get healing that helps in a pinch. Ninja gives you swings and a/d for the high levels. The real question becomes how much of barbarian you really want. If you go with no barbarian, you will never really experience decent magic entry until high levels (300+). Taking barb to 195 will give you magic entry for 6 mana, a reasonable usage level that can free up your ring slot for something else like entrapment. Barb doesn't add much skill wise to the package, only getting you (at level 999) 6 more percentage points on thieving over ninja, or 8 more percentage points on backstab over villain. If you are happy with a ring of entry, then do not bother with barbarian in your troll package. It is easy to run a troll up to a very high level and become a buzz saw of death, but you will be frustrated by the movement group absence. They are a lots of fun as a second character, particularly if you have a high penalty, multi spellcasting guild mushpot as your primary.
Elves have a high racial penalty considering what they get. They get nice vision, crummy breathing, and fantastic lifespan. The problem is that there arc PoY's and blood of ages in the game which make lifespan meaningless. Elves have low strength and con which should tell you to stay away from fighting with elves. The 50% mind and 80% magic resistance of elves makes them great in any kind of spellcasting battle. The main benefit of elves is super high int and wis, reaching 26 and 25 respectively and giving you a base mana pool of 255. If you are going to play a pure spellcaster, then elf is tile race to pick. There is some evidence that spell damage is increased with high intelligence and wisdom. Elves are also quick, with a 24 max dex, which helps on 1st strike.
My pick for elves is a good aligned sorc/mage/explorer/warlock(38)/artisan(200)/paladin(none or 56 or all the way). Some people like to play neutral elves, but I think if you are going to do that, you might as well be saris and get the resistances and big dex. Warlock in a sorcerer/mage package is overkill, giving you only the mind and damage groups, which is why I would dump it at 38. I pick explorer over warlock for the cheap movement and high perception, as well as tolerable a/d for the end game. It used to be that you got an experience benefit by dumping all men at arms guilds and sticking with spellcasters, but penalties seem to go straight to 1.5 now once you hit the 200 level regardless of choice of guilds. The real question becomes how much ij any of paladin you want. Paladin will give you a bit better fighting and a/d aver explorer, but remember you are an elf and you pretty much suck at physical combat. Paladin gets quested a whole bunch for marginal benefits. Taking paladin to 56 gets you an extra swing. To get a 2nd extra you will have to drag it all the way to level 243, which is a ton of quests. As an elf , I would default to a spell rather than fighting, and reserve fighting for emergency situations. The key to making this work well is go down, blast like hell, and return, never bothering with chests. Trade with your buddies for the stuff you need. Use your companions to deal with the stuff in anti - magic zones (pick men at arms companions if possible). I think your primary goal is to get your spellcasting guilds up as high as possible. Do not lose sight of that focus with things like paladin.
Giant worked surprisingly well for me in the full beta test. Giant starts with great stats, most noticeably the 29 max strength. The int, wis are high enough not to penalize a/d or spellcasting. Nothing beats a Giant for a/d, and if you like to do massive damage with a weapon, giant is for you. They made giant vision worse than it used to be, and breathing is about the same. The world is dark fee you as a giant, and you will probably want to hotkey brightness later on. Giants are very big, so they can carry large, dead companions. I find with giants I block more creatures from fleeing, but have a harder time fleeing myself. Giant gets OK resistance, with 50% in fire, cold, electricity, disease, poison, paralysis, and drain. You get a 25% stone resist, which is a remote chance of surviving. Mind and acid attacks will always plague you, as you will never get those spells.
The strength of giant is that although it has only 4 guilds, the four guilds it has work very well together. I would do all 4 - warrior, barbarian, explorer, and artisan(200). These 4 guilds tend to be able to all use the same objects, so there is little gear switching. The main weakness of giant of mass kill and healing can be overcome through items, and there seems to be a few items specifically made for giants, such as gauntlets with flaming sphere on them. I think giant is the superior warrior to ninja. The reason is that a 7 swing vorpal blade with 2 or 3 extra swings is going to kick some serious ass, particularly if you have a 42 adjusted strength driving it. Those extra swings seem to matter early for a ninja, but in the long haul your damage per swing seems to matter more. Even a dagger of ne'tal with a 1.2 multiplier is nasty in a giants hands (stone and ok damage). The other real gem of giant is the explorer guild. It is very nice being able to move around the dungeon quickly and perceive everything quickly. Your only real regret will probably be healing, so save all those scrolls of spells and tomes of spells you find to trade to your magic using buddies for gems of restoration etc. If you can get a giant high enough level with decent equipment, you will have one of the best characters in the game.
For solo play, just about any other race beats a gnome for any given alignment. It is for this reason I seldom play gnomes. Gnomes do have in general high characteristics and a fantastic charisma, but charisma isn't everything. Gnome vision is bad, on par with a giant, and the breathing is ok. Gnome resistances are nothing to brag about, with only human being worse. Like humans, gnomes can cast any spell in the game. There are two combinations which may be worth trying. Like humans, gnomes can cast any spell in the game.
Saris is one of the best races in the game to solo. You get 90% resistance to electricity, mind, and acid, all the resistance spells which you would normally have to find on treatises. These treatises are normally only useable by warlock or sorcerer, and neutrals can only be warlocks who have very high mana costs for resistances. So as a neutral, you want high resistance in these areas naturally. Another benefit of Saris is the 90% stone resistance. There are many creatures in the game which will kill you outright by stoning, and saris can ignore them. The other great benefit of saris is they get a FANTASTIC dexterity, probably the single most important characteristic in the game since it influences not only thieving skill (traps on chests do more damage than anything) but first strike. If you get first strike and kill something, it never gets a chance to behead you or drain you, or hammer you with word of death. The main drawback of saris is weak fighting capability and no extra swings. My pick for the ultimate saris character is thief/explorer/mage/cleric/warlock(38)/artisan(200). Each one of these guilds is essential. Warlock is dropped at 38 for the hit points. As saris, you will always know what is in every chest. You will be able to retain companions for a long lime, since you almost never miss on a chest disarm and you have fantastic first strike. Because of a lade: of extra swings and fighting skill, your best hope as a saris is to play with a spell default and let magic do most of the killing for you. Some people like to begin as an artisan/thief, but I prefer a mage start as mage seems to be highest in the rarest potions. It is tricky running a mage start with a saris, and you may want to rack up a few con items before you try it. A word of caution from the full beta test - swings and fighting skill seemed to matter a lot on the lower levels as the spell costs were so high that you were in a mana bind. The key to making a super high level saris work will be in going deep, fast, and preserving your mana for blasting.
There are a great number of tips and strategies for the new player. I will try to cover some of them.
Which character should you start as your very first? There are two schools of thought on this. One group, the legacy school, recommends you create some disposable character like a giant or an ogre, give it max dex, str, and have it run about gathering tomes and pots to give to your real character who will start next Some view this as cheating. I personally do not, since it is by your own effort and skill that you obtain the items. I would not really recommend this, however, since one of the big thrills of the game is finding potions and you get a great sense of accomplishment when you have finally maximized all of your stats. The other school of thought is you pick what you warn to play, and struggle with it through thick and thin to the bitter end through every single adversity.
I prefer a middle ground. I like to have 2 or even 3 viable characters, one of each alignment. What I do is run one, sell off potions and tomes that I cannot use, and when I get bored with it and wand a change of pace, I switch to another. In 992 I had 3 characters - a good elf art/mage/sorc/warlock, a neutral mushpot dwarf with all guilds, and an evil troll art/ninja/villain. I would play the elf when I wanted to rely upon spellcasting and blast my way around. I never opened chests with the elf. I played dwarf when I wanted to open chests. I played the troll when I wanted quick leveling with many many swings. If I got stuck on some very difficult quest, I would run another character for a while. This 'portfolio' of characters will help in the present version, particularly if you enjoy grouping. On one night you may find someone who needs Thieving, and on the next you may find someone who wants extra swings. If you have a variety of characters, you can play the best suited to the party. Also the object code is harder than it was in earlier betas, so if you say play an evil character who buys evil potions, realigns neutral potions, and sells good potions, after a while your shop will have a bunch of good aligned items and you should then run your good character for a while.
Instead of a trio of characters, you may want to just give it a try with one character. Your immediate goal is to maximize constitution so you will get a constitution bonus. The constitution bonus is about +lhp for every 2 points of con above 16. Knowing this means there is no difference for hp between a 15 and a 16 con. If you have say a 12 con or so, your resurrection success is fairly good, and you may want to not realign every tome as you find it. What I do is combine and bank like aligned potions and tomes, and realign them when I have enough to make a meaningful difference. So if I have a 12 con and find 4 tomes of endurance, I will wait until I can find a 5th which would bring me to a 17 con were I to use them all, and then realign them. This takes advantage of the fact that realignment costs for tomes arc independent of the number of charges, IE a Tome of Endurance(5) costs the same to align as a Tome of Endurance (l). Realigning tomes is a huge waste of money early on in the game. You may apply the same strategy to other tomes. For instance, say you are playing a saris thief who wants to become a mage, but lacks 5 charisma. There is no point in realigning your potions of leadership until you have enough to qualify for mage. So sit back, hoard them and wait.
As you are gathering tomes early on, you really do not want to gain too many levels in any one guild. This is because constitution bonuses are not retroactive. So if hit 29th artisan and finally get an 18 con, you will not have your hit points increase by 29* 1= 29hp, you will only get a + 1hp bonus tike next time you level artisan. Furthermore once you reach MxLv in a guild (see the guild statistics table in the help lesson) you no longer get any con bonuses at all. What I try to do to get good hp is to get artisan to 10 (take warrior to 10 first if you can be warrior), then gain another guild, take it to 10, then gain another guild, bring it to 10, repeat until you have all the guilds you want. Even if you cannot qualify for a new guild, a few sweeps of 2 while pinned may net you the tomes you need to max con. Only realign tomes/potions when it is time to qualify for another guild, or in the case where they will permit you to do something fantastic, like cast magic entry. If you are already qualified for several guilds, there is no immediate rush to realign con tomes. Until one guild level goes beyond 10, your hp will not change. Once you hit 10 in all guilds you wish to join, you have a potion party and realign everything. Why artisan 10? Well artisan 10 is a sound level from an a/d standpoint and it permits the use of the two swing stealth dagger. An artisan equipped with a stealth dagger can clear level 2 rapidly with no trouble.
The before mentioned strategy bothers some because they think they will have 'lost hp'. Lets do the math for a simple example. Consider the case of an ogre with starting con below 17. If he begins as warrior and goes to level 10 warrior/art, he will have 60 hp on average. If he were playing a legacy with maximum constitution at level 1, he would have a 25 con, which implies an additional +4.5 hp on average, or 45 hp aver the 10 levels. It is this difference which drives many to create legacy constitution maximized characters. Now in the grand scheme of things, 45 hp is not that much. That is about 20 levels at 2 hp/lvl. If you are running a character into the 200's the difference will be gone. A person who began the game as a constitution maxed ogre (20 con) would have an average +2 hp/lvl more than another character, or 20 hp by level 10. It is for this reason that many elekt to not max out con in the start, and instead try to begin with 10int, 10wis (can read tomes) and 12 str,12 dex (can use stealth dagger).
This 'portfolio' of characters will help in the present version, particularly if you enjoy grouping. On one night you may find someone who needs thieving, and on the next you may find someone who wants extra swings. If you have a variety of characters, you can play the one best Suited to the party. Also the object code is harder than it was in earlier betas, so if you say play an evil character who buys evil potions, realigns neutral potions, and sells good potions, after a while your shop will have a bunch of good aligned items and you should then run your good character for a while.
So which of your portfolio should you play first? A warrior/men at arms intensive character like giant, ogre, or troll is easy in many ways since you have higher starting hit points and you do not have to run back to town for mana recharges frequently. With one of these, you can cruise level 2 after you reach level 5 or so and start to rack up potions. Level 2 tends to yield mainly str, dex, and con potions. Once you start running level 3, you may be in for a disappointment since there are large groups of slaves which take forever to cut down with a 2 swing weapon. Level 3 has int, wis, and cha pots and tomes. A thief start is an interesting twist. It is hard in some ways because you do not have the killing power of the men at arms, nor do you have the blasting of spellcasters, but you can open up magically sealed chests (after you reach 14 int and wis!) and really start raking in the good tomes and potions. A spellcasting start is tricky but can lead to a swift power build up. To make a spellcaster start work, usually you pick sorcerer and set up your spell buffers and use shock as your option. Then you run around the level blasting everything in sight until you run out of mana and head back to town. If you are completely new, your best bet is a warrior start with a giant, ogre.
There are many common mistakes new players make that wind up getting them killed. Here are a few:
The attributes you select at character generation is an important choice you will initially face. Unlike pen and pencil RPG's where attributes are essentially fixed and are very difficult to vary, in Demise tomes and potions which permanently increase attributes are fairly common. When you ask the question of what my starting attributes should be, you in effect are asking for a judgment call based on potion/tome frequency and early game survival.
To give you a feel for the potion/tome yield, I ran a Saris thief around level 2 and found the following statistics items:
| Str | 10p + 10t = 20 |
| Cha | 7p + 5t = 12 |
| Con | 3p + 7t = 10 |
| Dex | 5p + 4t = 9 |
| Wis | 4p + 4t = 8 |
| Int | 0p + 2t = 2 |
I had found these by the time I had reached 17 artisan, 8 explorer, 17 thief, and 11th level cleric.
So strength tomes/pots are the most common on level 2, and intelligence tomes/pots are very very rare. A few rules to try to keep in mind when doing starting characteristics (1) keep int, wis = 10 or higher so you can read tomes, and (2) have str 12, dex 12 so you can use the stealth dagger at level 10 artisan. With strength tomes being so common, you can probably pick up a few before making level 10 artisan. The dagger of stealth is not that crucial if you have decent spellcasting. Below are some starting statistics recommendations for all races. Unless a second guild is listed, it means you are assumed to be in artisan as well for the a/d and early hp. Format is str, int, wis, con, cha, dex.
| Human | 14 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 5 | 15 | warrior/barbarian |
| Elf | 7 | 14 | 13 | 12 | 7 | 10 | sorcerer |
| Saris | 9 | 14 | 12 | 10 | 5 | 16 | thief |
| Dwarf | 14 | 10 | 10 | 17 | 4 | warrior | |
| Yeti | 7 | 14 | 13 | 12 | 6 | 10 | sorcerer |
| Giant | 14 | 13 | 13 | 10 | 4 | 12 | warrior/explorer |
| Ogre | 14 | 10 | 10 | 20 | 4 | 8 | warrior |
| Troll | 10 | 10 | 10 | 18 | 4 | 12 | artisan |
| Gnome | 9 | 12 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 16 | thief |
The human start is for warrior and barbarian at the same time. You meet minimum tome usage, and can get decent hp. Both elf and yeti I have starting as sorcerers with extra points dumped into charisma. This is so you are well on your way to becoming a mage. You will rely upon buffered spells to do all your killing as an elf or yeti. Both dwarf and ogre I have with warrior starts with high constitutions. Your goal here is to get huge hp, and try to gain some other guild by the time you reach art 30. Both saris and gnome I have as thieves. For saris, I put your int at 14 so you are well on your way to casting magic entry, and qualifying for cleric. For gnome, I put wis at 10 and dumped the rest into con. It is going to be a long hard ride with about any gnome start. Gain Barbarian as soon as you can for the fighting skill. In time you will become mage and cleric and explorer as well.
The penalty system has changed much over time and incarnations of Mordor/IW/Demise. Originally there were no penalties in play other than fixed racial penalties. Players then played in all possible guilds with no penalty and that was found to be unbalancing, so guild penalties were added. At one time Vamp worked out a guild penalty equation system, but the penalties evolved once again into a system with a maximum penalty limit (1.5), with an A/D penalty factor, and other weighting factors that made the equations modeling them no longer function. Qualitatively we understand the present system, but a quantitative predictive model has not been made for the new system. What follows is a discussion of how the various penalties work presently, as well as leveling strategies to consider to minimize them.
Lets just start with the form of the experience equation
X(n+l) = c*(l+ p^O+r^G^n^)Here n is your present level in the guild, X(n+1) is the total experience required to reach your next level in the guild, c is a constant that I have forgotten, p is your multiguild penalty displayed on your character sheet, r is the human normalized racial penalty, G is your guild experience factor as listed in the help lesson. Finger, Vorlin, Tiburon and I worked hard coming up with this equation. Finger actually had an exact equation he once posted, but it has since been lost (and I can no longer remember the constant, c).
You can approximate the human normalized racial penalty, r by r = (1-RF/3)/7. See the following table:
| Race | RF | Rtheory | Vorlin | Lok | |
| Hum | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Fit to |
| Yet | 4 | 0.05 | 0.06 | 0.0625 | Rtheory = (1-RF/3)/7 |
| Dwf | 5 | 0.1 | 0.11 | 0.108 | |
| O/T/G/G | 6 | 0.14 | 0.15 | 0.148 | |
| Elf | 7 | 0.19 | 0.19 | 0.1875 | |
| Sar | 8 | 0.24 | 0.23 | 0.222 |
Now take a good look at the experience equation, and a few things will stand out. First, your multiguild penalty ranges from 0 to 1.5. If you have many guilds at high levels (150+) odds are you will be at the maximum multiguild penalty of 1.5. It is my personal observation that the only way to avoid this penalty from increasing to 1.5 is to pick one guild and level that exclusively. You can take whole bunch of guilds to around level 30, then pick one and go the rest of the way with a low multiguild penalty.
Another thing to notice is that r (KO.22) is much smaller than p (p<1.5) for high p, so if you think it will be a whole lot cheaper leveling a human over a saris at high levels, you are mistaken. Pick the race you want to play, and play it.
Another important thing to notice is that the experience equation is for TOTAL experience. If you click on the 'XP' in the lower right comer of your screen, you can toggle back and forth between total xp and the xp required to make your next level.
You will find people who talk about something called idle. Idle occurs when you return to a guild after leveling another guild. What you find is your total experience goal has increased in your old guild. This is because p increased because you leveled another guild. This penalty can be VERY substantial. For instance with my yeti I took art, expl, warr, barb, mage, and sorc to 45 then pushed sorc and mage to level 190. Towards level 190 mage and sorcerer I would level 2 levels of mage and switch to sorcerer for 2 levels etc, and I had an additional idle of 300K xp just from the little bit p increased!
Idle can be expressed as
Idle = (deltaP)*c*(1+r)*G*n^2Where deltaP is how much your multiguild penalty has increased since you last leveled the guild. Notice a few things- a high G guild like cleric will experience a much higher idle than a low G guild like artisan. Also, the amount of idle increases with the level of the guild idled. So abandoning cleric at a high level and low penalty, and returning later to find it with a deltaP of 1.5 is going to really hurt. If you must idle a spellcasting guild, do so at a lower level where the idle penalty will not be that bad, or periodically go back and bum off the idle.
What causes the multiguild penalty, p, to increase? Every time you gain a/d from another guild, or your fighting, thieving, backstab, critical hit, perception or language skill increases because you leveled one guild, all other guilds you have will experience a penalty increase. We used to know exactly what this dependence was, but they added a/d to the penalty equation and we have not been able to get a good predictor on p since. The role of a/d is very substantial in terms of increases in p, and because artisan grants a/d much, much more rapidly than other guilds, taking artisan beyond level 30 will cause your other guilds to experience a higher p sooner. The least damaging guilds to level from a p standpoint are the spellcaster guilds (sorc, warl, cler, mage) since all they really increase is language.
One interesting fact is that once your p reaches 1.5 for all guilds, you will no longer experience idle penalties. This is because p can no longer increase, so the total experience goals for other guilds remain the same if you level another guild.
A brief word on goldpin, 1.5 penalty limits, experience reduction, and the game's highest levels-Your multiguild penalty does not only increase the experience required per level, but also the gold requirement per level. At the very highest levels, the gold factor starts to matter, since the dungeon * has limited depth. For instance, at level 402 barbarian with a 1.5 penalty, I need almost 120k gold per level, and a typical trip to get my 400+k xp to level only nets around 60k gold. So what I am experiencing is a gold pin situation, where eventually I will have enough experience to level but not enough gold, and my xp will be pinned while I gather gold. Going single guild or quasi-single guild will eliminate both experience and gold penalties and let you eventually reach a much higher guild level. The tradeoff is versatility verses penalty- take your pick. For the single player game with parties, you may wish to remain single guild or quasi-single guild (all guild levels 30 or less but for your main, 'quasi-single' guild). For MP until they fix play lag, we are pretty much stuck with high penalty characters. Also there appears to be an experience reduction factor based upon comparing your level to that of the monster. For instance at level 30 or so you can get around 2.5kxp from a party of ants on Ivl 4, but if you return to those same ants at character level 150, you will get between 500 and 1000 xp. This experience reduction starts to kick in for the basement around character level 300+, so ultimately a mono guild character will be able to reach the games highest levels.
So how do you cope with penalties? There are several strategies. Pick the one that best suits you. Do not make the mistake of taking ninja to 132 for your 3rd extra strike, then go back and expect to have an easy ride leveling your level 10 sorcerer.
Some changes have been made to the object code recently which really impact play. First of all, rings now come in two varieties - the 'spell level = casters spell level' or 'sl=csl' rings and the rings which have a fixed spell level but all guilds may use the item. The sl=csl rings are by far the most potent rings in the game once you reach upper levels, and you should look into them. For instance, the all guilds ring of teleportation has a range of 0,0,2, but at 265 explorer my range on the sl=csl ring is 26,26,4, a much deeper teleport. The general rule is that a sl=csl ring is not class restricted with a guild list limited to those guilds which can actually cast the spell that is on the ring. Thus rings of flame and frost in the sl=csl variety are usable only by sorcerers, and they become devastating for the mid game. There are some exceptions, notably the ring of entry which has a sl=csl version with a guild list of mage, cleric, warlock, sorcerer, and thief. The all guilds rings tend to have more limited use, conveying some power in limited situations.
Burnables are those items in the game which can not be equipped. There are exceptions to this rule in the form of sashes, which in general are cursed and carry charges. All burnables can never be recharged, and the store will not retain a burnable if its charges are below the stock number. For instance dust of healing is sold in batches of 5 charges, and if you sell a dust with 4 charges it will disappear from the store. So burnables include all scrolls, potions, tomes, cubes, spheres, wands, rods, orbs, crystals, and dust. A good strategy for burnables is to stack them ( IE combine stacks in the store) to a level where they will be retained upon sale, then sell them.
Not all cursed items are bad. Some of the cursed items are cursed to prevent recharge (as store will not retain cursed items), eg sash of shades. Other cursed items are important quest items, and you should bank rare cursed items for later in case you get quested. There are also some fantastic cursed items which convey abilities at a price, eg. Dalyns last laugh, grants +1 to all stats, -9/-9 a/d.
Crystals of mysticism or 'greenies' are potentially the single best lifesavers in the game. I always carry two - one for emergencies, and a backup in case the main one gets destroyed by corrosion or acid. When you use a crystal of mysticism, you open a mystic portal which transports you to where you last established mystic portal. The spell 'establish mystic portal' of the location group is the only spell in the game common to all guilds. You should remember to establish a mystic portal inside the dungeon near the entrance as one of the first things you do. What this does is set your destination point for the crystal of mysticism. Greenies can save your life in situations where you say set off a fate trap and only have 1 hp left, or are randomly teleported underwater. As you get higher in level, a crystal of mysticism can be a cheap fast way home (or down, depending upon where you establish mystic portal). The reason why most people do not use them routinely until higher levels is the 30 day aging penalty per use. Once you can cruise level 24+, you can find Blood of Ages (BoA) which reduces your age by 10 years. This enables mysticism use later on in the game.
All weapons are made of materials with different penetrating powers. Some creatures in the dungeon are weapon resistant, and you will need to use a higher penetration weapon against it. For instance wererats on level 5 are immune to bronze, but can be hit with iron or better. Often you can tell the weapon material type in its description. The store ranks weapons according to their penetration power by type. For daggers, you start with the bronze and work your way up to iron, than steel, then adamantite, then mythinite, etc. Some creatures are immune to all weapons, and you will either need to use spells or companions to kill them.
Here are a few insights I have gained over the years regarding the various guilds
Many shy away from multiplay because of lag and/or fear that it is hard to run a server, or they think they are limited to online play. Well one thing the manual does not tell you is that you can run a 'loopback' server offline with virtually no lag, or you can play online on your own server with little lag. To play the loopback server -
Run internet server. Change address to 127.0.0.1 This is the loopback server, the address of your own computer. Run demise, click on multiplay, under 'new' type in 127.0.0.1:26000, then connect to it Create a character, and run it. You are now playing offline.
If you want to run your server online, run 'winipcfg' to find out your IP address and enter that in internet server, and use
You can view ping of any given server by querying the master, copying the server to your personal address book, and highlighting it in your personal address book. Latency is important in demise, and although cable modems give you very low intrinsic ping, if you are many tiers down, you may play almost as fast with a decent 1st tier 56K dialup.
Generally it is good form to keep your chat window open while you play multiplayer, since the whole point is to interact with other players. Demise is not a PK game, and eventually you will do something like get rocked and need someone to rescue you, so it pays to be nice. One of the more challenging aspects of the game is performing a live rescue. Often this will take you to some dangerous place beyond your normal stomping grounds. Give it a try.
Grouping is possible, but synchronization issues persist making it less than optimal. Most people play a solo character in multiplay, trade with each other, and maybe cast spells on each other or rescue one or another. Few group. LAN play with low lag leads to great grouping.
Demise is a hacked game at this point in time, with an editor that gives you unlimited gold and experience, and there are pirated versions out there.
Trade is one of the better aspects of multiplay. It is fairly common for players to directly swap tomes of incorrect alignment to other players for properly aligned ones. If you are playing a fighter type, you might want to stockpile scrolls of spells you find for trade with spellcasters. Spellcasters should stockpile healing items for trade. Crystals of mysticism are of interest to just about anyone. Another trade good is orbs of life domination (OOLD's). High level players find Blood of Ages (reduce age by 10 years) when they run deep, and you might be able to trade a stack of healing stuff for one. You should only trade that which you found or traded for, as it is very poor form indeed to buy stuff out of someone's store and use it for trade.
Trading or giving hacks to other players is rude, as it devalues legitimate trade and makes precious, rare items commonplace and trite. It is for this reason that many play on password protected games or join the Legitimate Players League (www.kensworld.com/lpl) in order to get a clean game.
Twinking, the process where you power up a newbie with gifts, is also considered to be poor form and detrimental to the game. All twinking does is result in a dead newbie deeper in the dungeon.
Raiding is frowned upon. You have raided when you log onto a store, buy an object or a companion, and leave. Raiding is driving many servers into password protection. The worst thing to do is buy the last of anything, as that is most likely to anger someone and get you banned. If you are hunting for a rare object and find one in someone's store, ask before buying, or sell something of equal rarity (not gold piece value!) to the store in return. Most people are cool about it if you ask. Consumables like crystals of mysticism, scrolls of spells, gems of restoration really are there for people who actually bother to play on that server. If you come on and clean out the crystals of mysticism and leave, a regular who comes on later will not have the basics he/she needs to adventure there.
Begging is also considered to be poor form. Standing in town and telling sob stories about why you need just annoys most people. If you need something ask nicely once, and offer something of value in return. If someone rescues you, it is a good idea to offer to reimburse rescue costs. Giving gold to a high level character may be a meaningless gesture, but a consumable of his or her alignment is useful to just about anyone.
Server hopping is also considered rude. Server hopping is when you quit the dungeon in a specific room (say the dragon kings lair), quit a server, log on to another server, kill the monster, quit, repeat ad nauseum. This practice has dropped considerably since there is a long lead-time to clear and load a new dungeon now.
If you show up asking for help, it is generally a good idea to stick around, play a bit, and help out after you are helped.
Check player limits and lag before logging in. If a server is near the player limit, you may get disconnected or lag the place down. It is a good idea to quit in town before logging off a server, since you can determine in town if they have the spells you need, and you impose more lag on the server if you go in the dungeon.
Ambient sounds tend to cause lag in other players, since the game tries to synchronize them. Many players turn off ambient sounds (options/audio) to reduce lag for everyone.
If you run a server, it is generally nice to give players a 5-minute warning before you shut down the server. This lets them get out to safety so they don't log in somewhere else to find their way home blocked by monsters.
If you are a player, you should read the rules that show up on the popup greeting message you get upon connection to the server and abide by those rules.
It has been my experience that most players online for Demise are courteous, and most problems arise from ignorance. Remember many you play with may not speak English well.
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